Interview with Lee Jagger: Rocking the Bedroom-Part 2| Episode 44

Deanna Bryant
There was this statement that I saw you say you’ve been asked this question. Why do women who love their husbands, not want to have sex with them? What is your take on why you can love your husband and not want to have sex? Is it tied to all of these other things you’re talking about?

Yes. Really heavily tied to the what I said before about men needing sex to be connected synonymous with the word love, you know, so the guy is going to be thinking. If she loved me, she’d want to have sex with me. Women can have can be totally love of their husband. Like one of my clients just the other day, she said, Oh, I love my husband, we have a great time together. I wouldn’t want to ever divorce him. I just wish he didn’t have a penis. Oh, my gosh. I totally get it. Like, it’s so like, Oh, it’s the penis. If we could just like not ever have to go to bed, then we would have a great time. And, and she will she reminded me of that the other day, because she’s currently going through my erotic massage mastery course. And it’s changing everything. But she said to me the other day, Remember when I said that? Now she no longer feels like, Oh, I’m you know, not adverse to him having a penis anymore? Because now she knows what to do with it. Yeah, women can happily love a guy and not ever want to have sex with them. It happens all the time for women. And and it seems to be the lesser of two evils to be like, Oh, ho hum about the whole sex thing, then having obligatory sex. Obligatory sex is the greater of the two evils. So. Yeah, women can easily take that route, but it doesn’t serve them in the long run by avoiding sex, because what’s actually going to happen is those guys, a lot of the times they will look outside of the marriage, and then you got a whole different problem with the cheating thing. So yeah, it is not a fix to a relationship to just avoid having sex, you can make it really enjoyable.

I know people are like, well, there’s no excuse for stepping out of the marriage. No, there’s no excuse. But if the relationship is flailing in their sex life, like you say, it is indicative of what’s going on in the relationship. Then, if you’re not connected, I think it’s a prime opportunity for either a man or a woman to look outside for a way to connect. And it happens all the time.

Lee
All the time. When I did that work as an erotic massage provider, most of my clients were married. And that’s a big reason why I’m teaching this to women now. Because I would love to put all of the women who do my old profession out of work. Right? Men would no longer have the need to go and supplement their marriage. But the thing is, when they came to me, they weren’t saying that. I never had intercourse with them. Not once. Only my hands touch their body. And so they were looking for connection. They weren’t looking for sex. I mean, the whole sexual aspect and the whole happy ending thing at the end. Yes, that was just another way of being unconditionally loved, and appreciated and adored and respected. But that’s not why they came to me they came for connection. And, for it not to be held over their head at a later date, like unconditional love, and men crave it and it wasn’t the seady guys. They were the sweetest guys in the world, like really, really good men. But they were starved at home. So they came to the restaurant across the street to eat because they were starving at home. It doesn’t need to be that way. But it does happen all the time.

Deanna Bryant
Yes. And my husband will say or has said to me, I feel more connected to you when we have sex and I’m thinking well, I don’t need sex to feel connected. But you know what? There’s something that and it just substantiates what you just said because I’m hearing it exactly the same way for my husband.

That’s a guy’s happy place. Even bad sex they’ll take, because they just want to feel connected to you- hear that their heart is in the right place. It’s not just about the sex, it’s about the connection, they really want to connect. And we have a way to connect with them. I think this is reason why I love erotic massage so much is because we don’t always want to have intercourse. You know, like, I’m super bloated, or I’m not feeling so good or whatever is going to go on through menopause. vaginal dryness, oh my gosh, you know, like, Hey, honey, that’s gonna hurt tonight. I don’t want to do it. I want to connect with you. You can lay your magic hands on his body for five minutes, you’d be on a sex high for days. It’s a great alternative to intercourse. If that’s something you don’t want to do.

That’s true because women do go through a lot of sexual dysfunction once they hit midlife, and they don’t want to have sex. And I could see that being a very positive way of helping your husband feel connected without being in pain or miserable in some way.

Lee
Exactly. And it puts you in the driver’s seat. It’s the opposite of obligatory sex, total opposite. And you both end up walking away from that feeling very filled up. Yeah, it’s a great alternative on many levels.

Deanna Bryant
I agree. And it makes so much sense. I want to ask you a question. saw this on your website, where you say Dr. Ruth got it all wrong. What did she get wrong.

Lee
We’ve already touched on it. But I’ll tell you a quote that I saw her on an interview. And I love her. I just gotta say that I think she revolutionized conversations around sex and really, really did a lot for society in that that area. I adore that woman. But one thing she did say in an interview really rubbed me the wrong way. And you’d be able to relate to this. So she said, If a man wants to have sex, and a woman doesn’t, it’s no big deal. It takes three minutes, just have sex and give them the orgasm. To me. I’m like, heck, no. That’s obligatory sex. That is the definition of obligatory sex. And I am not an advocate of that at all. I’m not an advocate of getting women to have more sex. I am really behind the idea of women enjoying sex more, then they’ll want to have more sex, but not not doing it out of obligation. So love you, Dr. Ruth, but that part, I gotta take offense to it too.

Deanna Bryant
And I’m thinking that’s so generational, her generation and parents generation and my grandparents generation. And I hope that in future generations, definitely women are like, no, not doing it. Either it’s working or not. You talk about confidence. And one of the things I think women have a hard time doing is taking the lead and telling their husbands how they want him to do things, what they want. And we’re not enjoying sex, but yet, we’re not asking for what we need. What do you think about that?

Lee
I say that is happening all the time. In fact, probably right now. As we’re speaking, someone is having sex. And there’s a huge dialogue going on in her head. And she’s not saying it out loud. Mostly because she doesn’t want to hurt his feelings. She doesn’t want it to become an argument. You know? in a lot of instances, women don’t even know what they want, because they’ve just been having this boring old sex for years. So, when you get so creative in the bedroom, you end up finding out what turns you on and what you like, and, you know, like, Hey, I do this to you, honey, could you do this to me? Like the principle is the same. Most of what I teach, it’s all demonstrated on a man. Like date night, erotic massage is a little course I have, and it’s for a date night activity, and it’s shown on a man, and he’s faced down- it sounds, counterintuitive, but is truly good. But everything that I’m doing could be easily transferred to be done on a woman. Like as you graze the outside of his scrotum-a man would just graze the outside of your outer labia. Like the principles are all the same. The Anatomy changes slightly but there’s a lot that’s transferable. So by knowing how to turn on a guy, he gives you really great ideas on how to turn you on as well. A clitoral is just like a penis, only much smaller, but the same skills apply. So a woman can find out what she needs. And when she is used to being in the driver’s seat, she’s now easily articulating those needs.

Deanna Bryant
I like that because one of the things I was thinking is when I was reading through your site- you caught me at massage, I was like, heck, yeah, a massage. And then I thought erotic massage? Oh, what does that mean? And I know that you spend time helping women, but I love that you say, this can be turned around, and you can get that same erotic massage. If you have those conversations. I mean, look at the videos too, or I don’t know what form you have that in.

Lee
Yeah, it’s all video. That’s really the the best way for it to work too. Because it’s all physical. So it’s all video and yeah, all my courses are video and a lot of the the erotic massage is just massage. Like I show you how to do a back massage. As I’m going down your back and reaching out to your body and you know, getting into some juicy places it can become very erotic. But you also have some basic massage skills, so that you could deliver a massage that just melts your partner and they they fall asleep before you even get to the sensual part. Yes, it’s transferable. Your guy could easily give you an amazing massage based on the techniques that I use. Yeah, massage in itself is so sensual, and you can you can make it really delicious and connect on a whole different level just with a vanilla massage like just not even going near any genitalia. I don’t work so much with men now, but when I did work with men and I do have a course for men like guys would say okay, so you know things are getting a bit… dating a woman for a while. We’re about to get physical. How do I do this? Oh my gosh. I’ve taught men how to massage a woman using the same principles that I teach women. I love it. She is begging him to have sex with her. She is she’s so turned on. And women we need warming up. You know, you grab a man’s crotch.. That will turn him on. He’s good to go. You grab a woman’s crotch or her boob and she’s uh what are you doing? That is not a way to a woman right? We’re like, rub my shoulders, rub my feet, like caress my body. Warm me up for 20 minutes and then I’ll probably be so turned on and feeling all sensual that Yeah, okay, let’s make love. But there’s no wham bam Thank you ma’am. enjoyment there. You know, we’ve got to ramp up slow and massage is a really delicious way to do that.

Deanna Bryant
Sounds like it girl. I’m going to sign up for all your courses. I probably shouldn’t say that on here. But Heck, man, you know me, I’m pretty transparent. Well, we’ve come to the end of our time. What are the courses that you teach?

Lee
There are there are a few of them. But a really good kind of entry level is I have an erotic or well it’s rock the bedroom challenge coming up in July. And it’s a five day- one hour a day challenge where I’m going to be demonstrating an erotic massage techniques on a live model over zoom so if your kids are in the room, you may need to be somewhere where you’re gonna be following along practicing erotic massage techniques on your guy. And in other the other days I’ll be covering the other ways to feel confident in the bedroom – to step into your power. And it’s just a really simple five day kind of dip your toes in the water challenge. But it really it’s transformative. It’s simple, simple, simple, little changes that can make a huge difference, or a small hinge that swings a big door. So that’s a really fun thing that’s coming up in July. But if people just want to check out a free resource at rockthebedroom.com. right at the top of the page, there’s a video. It is a video and there is nudity because I show you how to drive him wild. One technique that will make him squirm. And so that’s a fun little intro video that people can watch. But just so that people know yes, there is nudity but it’s very tasteful. What I teach is not raunchy, it doesn’t look at all like porn. It’s very educational. And it’s an actof love towards a man. So yeah, there those are some some resources people can check out.

Deanna Bryant
They can find you at Rock the bedroom calm. Do you have any social media channels that you’re on?

Lee
Yeah, on Facebook. I am Lee Jagger rocks and I’m also Lee Jagger on YouTube. There are less YouTube videos, but on Facebook, I post all the YouTube videos and whatnot. So people can click on them and follow through and then subscribe. There’s lots of things that I put out on social media just for education, just to help women just dip their toes in and realize there’s more out there and you deserve more, you’re worth more than a mediocre marriage.

Deanna Bryant
I love that. I love that you’re worth more. And I think that’s so empowering in itself. You’re worth more because it gives us a place that we can expect things to change by taking some action. Sometimes you have to do more. And that’s just how it works. Listen, thank you so much. You have been just a delight to have on here today. And I thank you for spending your time with me today.

Lee
I appreciate your open-mindedness and wanting to have this very taboo conversation they have so much you’re serving so many women right now.

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Deanna Bryant
There was this statement that I saw you say you’ve been asked this question. Why do women who love their husbands, not want to have sex with them? What is your take on why you can love your husband and not want to have sex? Is it tied to all of these other things you’re talking about?

Yes. Really heavily tied to the what I said before about men needing sex to be connected synonymous with the word love, you know, so the guy is going to be thinking. If she loved me, she’d want to have sex with me. Women can have can be totally love of their husband. Like one of my clients just the other day, she said, Oh, I love my husband, we have a great time together. I wouldn’t want to ever divorce him. I just wish he didn’t have a penis. Oh, my gosh. I totally get it. Like, it’s so like, Oh, it’s the penis. If we could just like not ever have to go to bed, then we would have a great time. And, and she will she reminded me of that the other day, because she’s currently going through my erotic massage mastery course. And it’s changing everything. But she said to me the other day, Remember when I said that? Now she no longer feels like, Oh, I’m you know, not adverse to him having a penis anymore? Because now she knows what to do with it. Yeah, women can happily love a guy and not ever want to have sex with them. It happens all the time for women. And and it seems to be the lesser of two evils to be like, Oh, ho hum about the whole sex thing, then having obligatory sex. Obligatory sex is the greater of the two evils. So. Yeah, women can easily take that route, but it doesn’t serve them in the long run by avoiding sex, because what’s actually going to happen is those guys, a lot of the times they will look outside of the marriage, and then you got a whole different problem with the cheating thing. So yeah, it is not a fix to a relationship to just avoid having sex, you can make it really enjoyable.

I know people are like, well, there’s no excuse for stepping out of the marriage. No, there’s no excuse. But if the relationship is flailing in their sex life, like you say, it is indicative of what’s going on in the relationship. Then, if you’re not connected, I think it’s a prime opportunity for either a man or a woman to look outside for a way to connect. And it happens all the time.

Lee
All the time. When I did that work as an erotic massage provider, most of my clients were married. And that’s a big reason why I’m teaching this to women now. Because I would love to put all of the women who do my old profession out of work. Right? Men would no longer have the need to go and supplement their marriage. But the thing is, when they came to me, they weren’t saying that. I never had intercourse with them. Not once. Only my hands touch their body. And so they were looking for connection. They weren’t looking for sex. I mean, the whole sexual aspect and the whole happy ending thing at the end. Yes, that was just another way of being unconditionally loved, and appreciated and adored and respected. But that’s not why they came to me they came for connection. And, for it not to be held over their head at a later date, like unconditional love, and men crave it and it wasn’t the seady guys. They were the sweetest guys in the world, like really, really good men. But they were starved at home. So they came to the restaurant across the street to eat because they were starving at home. It doesn’t need to be that way. But it does happen all the time.

Deanna Bryant
Yes. And my husband will say or has said to me, I feel more connected to you when we have sex and I’m thinking well, I don’t need sex to feel connected. But you know what? There’s something that and it just substantiates what you just said because I’m hearing it exactly the same way for my husband.

That’s a guy’s happy place. Even bad sex they’ll take, because they just want to feel connected to you- hear that their heart is in the right place. It’s not just about the sex, it’s about the connection, they really want to connect. And we have a way to connect with them. I think this is reason why I love erotic massage so much is because we don’t always want to have intercourse. You know, like, I’m super bloated, or I’m not feeling so good or whatever is going to go on through menopause. vaginal dryness, oh my gosh, you know, like, Hey, honey, that’s gonna hurt tonight. I don’t want to do it. I want to connect with you. You can lay your magic hands on his body for five minutes, you’d be on a sex high for days. It’s a great alternative to intercourse. If that’s something you don’t want to do.

That’s true because women do go through a lot of sexual dysfunction once they hit midlife, and they don’t want to have sex. And I could see that being a very positive way of helping your husband feel connected without being in pain or miserable in some way.

Lee
Exactly. And it puts you in the driver’s seat. It’s the opposite of obligatory sex, total opposite. And you both end up walking away from that feeling very filled up. Yeah, it’s a great alternative on many levels.

Deanna Bryant
I agree. And it makes so much sense. I want to ask you a question. saw this on your website, where you say Dr. Ruth got it all wrong. What did she get wrong.

Lee
We’ve already touched on it. But I’ll tell you a quote that I saw her on an interview. And I love her. I just gotta say that I think she revolutionized conversations around sex and really, really did a lot for society in that that area. I adore that woman. But one thing she did say in an interview really rubbed me the wrong way. And you’d be able to relate to this. So she said, If a man wants to have sex, and a woman doesn’t, it’s no big deal. It takes three minutes, just have sex and give them the orgasm. To me. I’m like, heck, no. That’s obligatory sex. That is the definition of obligatory sex. And I am not an advocate of that at all. I’m not an advocate of getting women to have more sex. I am really behind the idea of women enjoying sex more, then they’ll want to have more sex, but not not doing it out of obligation. So love you, Dr. Ruth, but that part, I gotta take offense to it too.

Deanna Bryant
And I’m thinking that’s so generational, her generation and parents generation and my grandparents generation. And I hope that in future generations, definitely women are like, no, not doing it. Either it’s working or not. You talk about confidence. And one of the things I think women have a hard time doing is taking the lead and telling their husbands how they want him to do things, what they want. And we’re not enjoying sex, but yet, we’re not asking for what we need. What do you think about that?

Lee
I say that is happening all the time. In fact, probably right now. As we’re speaking, someone is having sex. And there’s a huge dialogue going on in her head. And she’s not saying it out loud. Mostly because she doesn’t want to hurt his feelings. She doesn’t want it to become an argument. You know? in a lot of instances, women don’t even know what they want, because they’ve just been having this boring old sex for years. So, when you get so creative in the bedroom, you end up finding out what turns you on and what you like, and, you know, like, Hey, I do this to you, honey, could you do this to me? Like the principle is the same. Most of what I teach, it’s all demonstrated on a man. Like date night, erotic massage is a little course I have, and it’s for a date night activity, and it’s shown on a man, and he’s faced down- it sounds, counterintuitive, but is truly good. But everything that I’m doing could be easily transferred to be done on a woman. Like as you graze the outside of his scrotum-a man would just graze the outside of your outer labia. Like the principles are all the same. The Anatomy changes slightly but there’s a lot that’s transferable. So by knowing how to turn on a guy, he gives you really great ideas on how to turn you on as well. A clitoral is just like a penis, only much smaller, but the same skills apply. So a woman can find out what she needs. And when she is used to being in the driver’s seat, she’s now easily articulating those needs.

Deanna Bryant
I like that because one of the things I was thinking is when I was reading through your site- you caught me at massage, I was like, heck, yeah, a massage. And then I thought erotic massage? Oh, what does that mean? And I know that you spend time helping women, but I love that you say, this can be turned around, and you can get that same erotic massage. If you have those conversations. I mean, look at the videos too, or I don’t know what form you have that in.

Lee
Yeah, it’s all video. That’s really the the best way for it to work too. Because it’s all physical. So it’s all video and yeah, all my courses are video and a lot of the the erotic massage is just massage. Like I show you how to do a back massage. As I’m going down your back and reaching out to your body and you know, getting into some juicy places it can become very erotic. But you also have some basic massage skills, so that you could deliver a massage that just melts your partner and they they fall asleep before you even get to the sensual part. Yes, it’s transferable. Your guy could easily give you an amazing massage based on the techniques that I use. Yeah, massage in itself is so sensual, and you can you can make it really delicious and connect on a whole different level just with a vanilla massage like just not even going near any genitalia. I don’t work so much with men now, but when I did work with men and I do have a course for men like guys would say okay, so you know things are getting a bit… dating a woman for a while. We’re about to get physical. How do I do this? Oh my gosh. I’ve taught men how to massage a woman using the same principles that I teach women. I love it. She is begging him to have sex with her. She is she’s so turned on. And women we need warming up. You know, you grab a man’s crotch.. That will turn him on. He’s good to go. You grab a woman’s crotch or her boob and she’s uh what are you doing? That is not a way to a woman right? We’re like, rub my shoulders, rub my feet, like caress my body. Warm me up for 20 minutes and then I’ll probably be so turned on and feeling all sensual that Yeah, okay, let’s make love. But there’s no wham bam Thank you ma’am. enjoyment there. You know, we’ve got to ramp up slow and massage is a really delicious way to do that.

Deanna Bryant
Sounds like it girl. I’m going to sign up for all your courses. I probably shouldn’t say that on here. But Heck, man, you know me, I’m pretty transparent. Well, we’ve come to the end of our time. What are the courses that you teach?

Lee
There are a few of them. But a really good kind of entry-level is I have an erotic or well it’s rock the bedroom challenge coming up in July. And it’s a five day- one hour a day challenge where I’m going to be demonstrating erotic massage techniques on a live model over zoom so if your kids are in the room, you may need to be somewhere where you’re gonna be following along practicing erotic massage techniques on your guy. And in the other days, I’ll be covering the other ways to feel confident in the bedroom – to step into your power. And it’s just a really simple five-day kind of dip your toes in the water challenge. But it really it’s transformative. It’s simple, simple, simple, little changes that can make a huge difference or a small hinge that swings a big door. So that’s a really fun thing that’s coming up in July. But if people just want to check out a free resource at http://www.rockthebedroom.com, right at the top of the page, there’s a video. It is a video and there is nudity because I show you how to drive him wild. One technique that will make him squirm. And so that’s a fun little intro video that people can watch. But just so that people know yes, there is nudity but it’s very tasteful. What I teach is not raunchy, it doesn’t look at all like porn. It’s very educational. And it’s an act of love towards a man. So yeah, there those are some resources people can check out.

Deanna Bryant
They can find you at Rock the bedroom calm. Do you have any social media channels that you’re on?

Lee
Yeah, on Facebook. I am Lee Jagger Rocks and I’m also Lee Jagger on YouTube. There’s less YouTube videos, but on Facebook, I post all the YouTube videos and whatnot. So people can click on them and follow through and then subscribe. There’s lots of things that I put out on on social media just just for education, just to help women just dip their toes in and realize there’s more out there and you deserve more, you’re worth more than a mediocre marriage.

Deanna Bryant
I love that. I love that you’re worth more. And I think that’s so empowering in itself. You’re worth more because it gives us a place that we can expect things to change by taking some action. Sometimes you have to do more. And that’s just how it works. Listen, thank you so much. You have been just a delight to have on here today. And I thank you for spending your time with me today.

Lee
I appreciate your open-mindedness and wanting to have this very taboo conversation they have so much you’re serving so many women right now.

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